KEN Clarke is seen as one of the more straight-talking, open politicians and I was looking forward to talking to him on 5 Live yesterday.

On air, I asked about his new plan to give ­defendants a 50% sentence discount for an early guilty plea.

He defended it on the grounds it saved victims the trauma of having to recount evidence in court.

Mr Clarke said he hadn't consulted rape victims and used the phrase "serious rape". Some listeners thought he meant some rapes were less serious.

I suggested "rape is rape, with respect" – to which he replied: "No it's not."

Things became tense when Gabrielle from London joined in the conversation.

She cried as she explained she was the victim of an attempted rape and his policy would free sex attackers to offend again.

The Justice Secretary was very sympathetic but he came back to the facts of the policy when perhaps more sensitive comments would have been helpful to her.

I've heard he's written to Gabrielle to apologise and is hoping to meet her. She may yet change his mind.