Links 22 Nov: Yet Even More Samsung and Apple Patent Fight! - Forbes

Samsung has added yet more Apple equipment to their side of the case. Not all that much of a surprise it must be said as the products do undoubtedly use the technology in question. Whether it's a breach of patent is of course for the court to decide: but they are using the basic kit, most certainly:

Samsung successfully added the iPhone 5 to its newest patent battle with Apple, and today the company accused several more of Cupertino's products of infringement — including the iPad mini. In a court filing today, the company asked to include Apple's 7.9-inch tablet along with the latest versions of the iPod Touch and iPad; all of the devices are accused of infringing the same patents already in play in the case.

The argument is that since everyone is talking about the same patents it's actually more efficient to hear them as just one case:

Sammy says it's arguing on the side of efficiency, noting that the new hardware is up against the very same claims as the iPhone 5 it added to the case last week, asserting that their inclusion wouldn't be a burden to the court.

Samsung itself is very bullish on the case:

The chief executive of Samsung Electronics has expressed confidence about the ongoing patent battle with Apple, saying that no smartpohone can exist without patents from Korea's technology giants.

"The truth never lies. Without Samsung-owned wireless patents, it's impossible for the Cupertino-based Apple to produce its handsets,'' said Samsung's mobile chief Shin Jong-kyun in a brief meeting with local reporters on his way to the company's main office in downtown Seoul, Wednesday.

"As you know, Samsung is very strong in terms of portfolios of wireless patents,'' the executive added.

That's actually about a different case but there are so many of them it's better to treat them all as skirmishes in hte same battle instead of different battles in the same war.

We've also got Samsung trying to see Apple's agreement with HTC. At first it didn't look too good:

Samsung's request to see a full copy of Apple's 10-year patent licensing settlement with HTC is moot because the South Korean company already agreed to accept a redacted version of the agreement.

That's the gist of Apple's response to Samsung's motion to compel Apple to provide it with a copy of the HTC deal. Evidently, Samsung's legal department told Apple it was happy to accept a redacted version of the document, and the iPhone maker has the emails to prove it.

That notion didn't fly: Apple has to provide the full HTC agreement:

While Judge Grewal did write that he was "more than a little skeptical" of Samsung's argument, he nevertheless ordered Apple to turn over the document. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear the details of the agreement will surface anytime soon, as it is being handed over subject to an "Attorneys-Eyes-Only" designation — basically, nobody but Samsung's legal team will get a look.

Err, yes, only the lawyers can see it.

The importance of this agreement is huge. Apple has been arguing that there are certain patents which Samsung is using….but which it would never license to anyone. For their value is greater than any amount of money that could be paid in fees. If they have been licensed to HTC then that argument rather falls flat. Of course, Apple can still insist on not licensing them to Samsung: these are not standards essential patents. However, judges are extremely reluctant to allow product bans of royalties or fees can be acceptable instead. Apple is looking for a ban in Samsung kit: but if it has licensed the patents to HTC then it's less likely to get such a ban.

Of course, if it gets that far then there will be another fight to see the numbers in the HTC agreement. But that's for later, not just yet.